Mercey Towing, beforehand
Author
Comment
Aerotowing in
the Panoche Valley feb. 15-16 or 22-23
Hello,
I'm trying to get an idea of how many pilots would like to participate in an aerotow flyin. Details:
Mercy Hot Springs: camping, cabins, hot tubs. Grill provided for BBQ.
Panoche Valley. This is the valley sailplanes fly to out of Hollister. They often cruise between 10-14k.
Date: trying for Feb. 15/16, but may be moved to 22-23.
Pilots can show up for one or two days.
Cost: 30.00 + 10.00 per tow per thousand feet. The thirty may be reduced at the event if we get a decent showing of pilots.
Aerotug: Paul Splann tows at the comps and according to USHGA can sign people off on their aerotow rating. He's providing tug, carts, etc.
I'll probably collect a 100.00 deposit prior to the event. May have a couple fun contests.
I'm hoping to set up a regular monthly thing through May.
ben
Hello,
I'm trying to get an idea of how many pilots would like to participate in an aerotow flyin. Details:
Mercy Hot Springs: camping, cabins, hot tubs. Grill provided for BBQ.
Panoche Valley. This is the valley sailplanes fly to out of Hollister. They often cruise between 10-14k.
Date: trying for Feb. 15/16, but may be moved to 22-23.
Pilots can show up for one or two days.
Cost: 30.00 + 10.00 per tow per thousand feet. The thirty may be reduced at the event if we get a decent showing of pilots.
Aerotug: Paul Splann tows at the comps and according to USHGA can sign people off on their aerotow rating. He's providing tug, carts, etc.
I'll probably collect a 100.00 deposit prior to the event. May have a couple fun contests.
I'm hoping to set up a regular monthly thing through May.
ben
Re: Aerotowing
in the Panoche Valley feb. 15-16 or 22-23
I thought Paul had a trike not a tug, has this changed?
Panoche Valley: Where?
Ben: Who?
Vince
I thought Paul had a trike not a tug, has this changed?
Panoche Valley: Where?
Ben: Who?
Vince
Tow
I need a tow rating. Is this a real clinic? If it is, sign me up.
I need a tow rating. Is this a real clinic? If it is, sign me up.
pesky
questions
Paul has a trike and a lot of experience towing at the comps.
Panoche is 30 minutes south of Hollister, or (as indicated in the above post) West of I5 near Fresno. I've chosen this area for two reasons:
1: It's close to us
2: we have two airstrips we can use for free just about anytime
3: It's where all the sailplanes from Hollister go to XC.
Clinic: I am not trying to set up any kind of clinic. However, I contacted USHGA and Paul is qualified to sign people off on their rating. I will try to set up some kind of orientation-first flight thing on the first day before 1pm. What Paul does in the way of instruction is up to him. If he gets the forms forms USHGA (I sent him the info on what to get), then he will give people their rating after the req's are met. I've done scooter towing, but never aerotowing, so I need the signoff too. 30% of the pilots are in the same boat.
I'll give you more details when the date is confirmed and I make a flyer.
Long term plan is to do this every month through May. Wish me luck.
ben
Paul has a trike and a lot of experience towing at the comps.
Panoche is 30 minutes south of Hollister, or (as indicated in the above post) West of I5 near Fresno. I've chosen this area for two reasons:
1: It's close to us
2: we have two airstrips we can use for free just about anytime
3: It's where all the sailplanes from Hollister go to XC.
Clinic: I am not trying to set up any kind of clinic. However, I contacted USHGA and Paul is qualified to sign people off on their rating. I will try to set up some kind of orientation-first flight thing on the first day before 1pm. What Paul does in the way of instruction is up to him. If he gets the forms forms USHGA (I sent him the info on what to get), then he will give people their rating after the req's are met. I've done scooter towing, but never aerotowing, so I need the signoff too. 30% of the pilots are in the same boat.
I'll give you more details when the date is confirmed and I make a flyer.
Long term plan is to do this every month through May. Wish me luck.
ben
Link to Photos
towing with Paul
You can get to Panoche Valley also via I-5.
Here's a link to the gallery of photos of aerotowing with Paul:
http://www.thermaling.com/sites/chowchilla/gallery/
-Eric Froehlich
You can get to Panoche Valley also via I-5.
Here's a link to the gallery of photos of aerotowing with Paul:
http://www.thermaling.com/sites/chowchilla/gallery/
-Eric Froehlich
images of the
location
Here's a Topo USA map of the area:
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panoche.jpg
I found 2 airstrips. One is right by the intersection of the north/south and east/west roads. The other is further to the east.
Here's an image of the area from earthviewer:
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev.jpg
The western airstrip is in the middle of the green rectangle in the upper-left quadrant of the road intersection. The runway is east-west (9/27). You can make out the eastern strip too.
(you're looking north in this image)
In this earthviewer image you see the western airstrip at the top-center, and the eastern strip at the lower-left, along the main road coming into the valley.
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev2.jpg
(you're looking west in this image)
Here's another view of the same area, this time looking toward the east. You can see the valley and I5 in the distance.
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev3.jpg
And to complete the tour, this image is looking toward the south.
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev4.jpg
Great photos, Eric. I just ordered a Canon G3, so I'll be trying some digital photos too. Edited by: Ernie Camacho at: 1/29/03 5:34:18 pm
Here's a Topo USA map of the area:
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panoche.jpg
I found 2 airstrips. One is right by the intersection of the north/south and east/west roads. The other is further to the east.
Here's an image of the area from earthviewer:
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev.jpg
The western airstrip is in the middle of the green rectangle in the upper-left quadrant of the road intersection. The runway is east-west (9/27). You can make out the eastern strip too.
(you're looking north in this image)
In this earthviewer image you see the western airstrip at the top-center, and the eastern strip at the lower-left, along the main road coming into the valley.
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev2.jpg
(you're looking west in this image)
Here's another view of the same area, this time looking toward the east. You can see the valley and I5 in the distance.
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev3.jpg
And to complete the tour, this image is looking toward the south.
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev4.jpg
Great photos, Eric. I just ordered a Canon G3, so I'll be trying some digital photos too. Edited by: Ernie Camacho at: 1/29/03 5:34:18 pm
Where is the
runway?
I tried to match Eric's photos with the earthviewer images and I can't find a match for the runway.
It must have been built after the satellite images were taken.
For one thing, it seems to be much longer than those in the earthviewer images.
I tried to match Eric's photos with the earthviewer images and I can't find a match for the runway.
It must have been built after the satellite images were taken.
For one thing, it seems to be much longer than those in the earthviewer images.
Trike
towing
I think we should go down and check out this trike and if we like towing with it consider geting one of our own. It would be less then half as expensive as a Dragonfly and wouldn't require a hanger to store. We could take it with us wherever we wanted to fly also. I'm up for going whenever Ben. hh
I think we should go down and check out this trike and if we like towing with it consider geting one of our own. It would be less then half as expensive as a Dragonfly and wouldn't require a hanger to store. We could take it with us wherever we wanted to fly also. I'm up for going whenever Ben. hh
Re: Aerotowing
in the Panoche Valley feb. 15-16 or 22-23
Who own's the airstrip and have they given permission?
What is the $30 for (lunch and a massage)?
Vince
Who own's the airstrip and have they given permission?
What is the $30 for (lunch and a massage)?
Vince
Quest bike-brake
style aerotow releases
I need to purchase an AT release and, after much discussion on the FlightPlans mailing list, am leaning toward the bike-brake style, double release as seen at www.questairforce.com/aero.html . The primary and secondary releases, plus the bridle set, will run about $190 including shipping.
If any of you are interested in one please let me know and I'll see if we can get a group discount.
I plan on making the order Monday at noonish, assuming the trip is a go. Shipping will take about 6 days.
Daniel
I need to purchase an AT release and, after much discussion on the FlightPlans mailing list, am leaning toward the bike-brake style, double release as seen at www.questairforce.com/aero.html . The primary and secondary releases, plus the bridle set, will run about $190 including shipping.
If any of you are interested in one please let me know and I'll see if we can get a group discount.
I plan on making the order Monday at noonish, assuming the trip is a go. Shipping will take about 6 days.
Daniel
the date is set:
15/16.
I don't have time to answer individual questions for 4 dif clubs and three email groups, so I'll put out a detailed flyer on the web tomorrow.
ben
I don't have time to answer individual questions for 4 dif clubs and three email groups, so I'll put out a detailed flyer on the web tomorrow.
ben
instruction/clinic
Hi everyone. I'm hoping I don't have to be in Boston that weekend (if anything I'll try to get back here for that weekend) and will be the man on the scene to teach you all how to fly your gliders behind a tug. I've got well over 800 flights behind tugs and am a BI/T3 (though I don't plan on doing any tandems). As it stands USHGA's rules for sign-offs prohibit me from signing you off (but the guy flying the tug can... which doesn't make much sense to me since he's typically a bit more concerned w/flying himself than watching you).
As for the tug, yeah its a trike, and it pulls us up pretty darn fast, 582 engine works great. I've never noticed a difference flying behind a trike or a dragonfly (except when the trike pilot wasn't comfortable flying slowly or towing people then I agree its hell but same thing could be said for someone in the same position in a d-fly). Sometimes the d-fly's can react a bit quicker to turbulence than a trike (control surfaces and all) but that's about it. And on a rowdy day the trike pilot tends to get more tired than a stick guy would.
If I'm here, I'll have some pretty specific rules and ways I want things to happen and will let everyone know them beforehand, but basically on your first flight that first 200 feet wracks my nerves something serious because if anything is going to happen it'll happen then and it'll be *bad* so having a bit of control over things helps to keep me calm
Also, I personally will only be willing to help strong hang 3's. Since we're not doing the training tandem, I have to be confident that you can handle your wing.
I hope to see you all there, and with any luck I'll get to fly a time or two and do some glider flippin
-Dallas
Hi everyone. I'm hoping I don't have to be in Boston that weekend (if anything I'll try to get back here for that weekend) and will be the man on the scene to teach you all how to fly your gliders behind a tug. I've got well over 800 flights behind tugs and am a BI/T3 (though I don't plan on doing any tandems). As it stands USHGA's rules for sign-offs prohibit me from signing you off (but the guy flying the tug can... which doesn't make much sense to me since he's typically a bit more concerned w/flying himself than watching you).
As for the tug, yeah its a trike, and it pulls us up pretty darn fast, 582 engine works great. I've never noticed a difference flying behind a trike or a dragonfly (except when the trike pilot wasn't comfortable flying slowly or towing people then I agree its hell but same thing could be said for someone in the same position in a d-fly). Sometimes the d-fly's can react a bit quicker to turbulence than a trike (control surfaces and all) but that's about it. And on a rowdy day the trike pilot tends to get more tired than a stick guy would.
If I'm here, I'll have some pretty specific rules and ways I want things to happen and will let everyone know them beforehand, but basically on your first flight that first 200 feet wracks my nerves something serious because if anything is going to happen it'll happen then and it'll be *bad* so having a bit of control over things helps to keep me calm
Also, I personally will only be willing to help strong hang 3's. Since we're not doing the training tandem, I have to be confident that you can handle your wing.
I hope to see you all there, and with any luck I'll get to fly a time or two and do some glider flippin
-Dallas
releases
Daniel, good call on the releases. Those of you that are flying high performance gliders don't need to bother w/the brake style releases though. We should have one down there for people to use and I reccomend it for the first flight or two for everyone. After that I (and many others) reccomend just using a dual (ie you'll need 2 of 'em) shoulder releases. When you order them be sure to get the Bob Lane super special tiny releases as they're much smaller and I think cuter
Ernie, the photos that Eric posted are from a different runway we've been using down by Chowchilla (should be a great spot this summer but this fall there was *zero* thermal activity which was great for me as I was able to loop from sunup to sundown a couple days).
Check out: homepage.mac.com/dallas_willis for two videos (one of me and one of Eric) towing on that same day when Paul pulled us up above the clouds... unreal...
Daniel, good call on the releases. Those of you that are flying high performance gliders don't need to bother w/the brake style releases though. We should have one down there for people to use and I reccomend it for the first flight or two for everyone. After that I (and many others) reccomend just using a dual (ie you'll need 2 of 'em) shoulder releases. When you order them be sure to get the Bob Lane super special tiny releases as they're much smaller and I think cuter
Ernie, the photos that Eric posted are from a different runway we've been using down by Chowchilla (should be a great spot this summer but this fall there was *zero* thermal activity which was great for me as I was able to loop from sunup to sundown a couple days).
Check out: homepage.mac.com/dallas_willis for two videos (one of me and one of Eric) towing on that same day when Paul pulled us up above the clouds... unreal...
release
Dallas,
Where can you get the "Bob Lane super special release you refer to? I am eager to do some towing and currently have no release.
Dallas,
Where can you get the "Bob Lane super special release you refer to? I am eager to do some towing and currently have no release.
towing
release
Vince,
Oh master of the towing art, what are your thoughts on tow releases? I would really like to hear your recommendation.
Vince,
Oh master of the towing art, what are your thoughts on tow releases? I would really like to hear your recommendation.
Re: towing
release
I have only towed in the two comps in Florida in 2002. Before that I had 7 tows behind Hungary Joe. If you are just beginning to tow, it is much easier to have the hand brake release. This is mostly because the towline is attached to your carabineer as well as your chest bridle. I call this a three-point tow. Having that extra point on your carabineer takes a lot of the load off and helps the glider track behind the tow plane better.
Once I felt comfortable towing with the three point system (5 tows), I change to just the two point chest bridle. It was more work with only the two points attached to the towline. It also is more work to release (about an extra second). If the towline goes slack, it takes both hands to release the barrel.
Towing with just the chest bridle is cleaner, nothing on the down tubes to get in the way of landing, and less bridle flapping in the breeze. I usually stow the bridle in my harness.
On towing behind a tug or a trike. In Florida the tow pilot made all the difference. A good tow pilot will put you in the good lift. Rich and I both had great tows from a pilot in a yellow trike. As for trike or tug, I have found they take a different technique. Once you are familiar with both they take the same amount of work. Towing behind a trike (if there are thermals and who wants to fly in smooth air) the trike will be all over the sky. If you try and not chase the trike all over it is not bad. Tugs (Dragon Fly) are more solid. They can also descend much faster. Which brings up another point.
A good tow pilot can tow about 8 pilots an hour. When Hungary Joe was up here towing the line for a tow was always about 2 to 3 hours long. If there are more than 15 pilots and only one trike, it is going to be a long time between tows, especially if there is little or no lift.
Vince
I would like to go if I could get more details.
Edited by: Vince Endter at: 1/30/03 7:07:09 pm
I have only towed in the two comps in Florida in 2002. Before that I had 7 tows behind Hungary Joe. If you are just beginning to tow, it is much easier to have the hand brake release. This is mostly because the towline is attached to your carabineer as well as your chest bridle. I call this a three-point tow. Having that extra point on your carabineer takes a lot of the load off and helps the glider track behind the tow plane better.
Once I felt comfortable towing with the three point system (5 tows), I change to just the two point chest bridle. It was more work with only the two points attached to the towline. It also is more work to release (about an extra second). If the towline goes slack, it takes both hands to release the barrel.
Towing with just the chest bridle is cleaner, nothing on the down tubes to get in the way of landing, and less bridle flapping in the breeze. I usually stow the bridle in my harness.
On towing behind a tug or a trike. In Florida the tow pilot made all the difference. A good tow pilot will put you in the good lift. Rich and I both had great tows from a pilot in a yellow trike. As for trike or tug, I have found they take a different technique. Once you are familiar with both they take the same amount of work. Towing behind a trike (if there are thermals and who wants to fly in smooth air) the trike will be all over the sky. If you try and not chase the trike all over it is not bad. Tugs (Dragon Fly) are more solid. They can also descend much faster. Which brings up another point.
A good tow pilot can tow about 8 pilots an hour. When Hungary Joe was up here towing the line for a tow was always about 2 to 3 hours long. If there are more than 15 pilots and only one trike, it is going to be a long time between tows, especially if there is little or no lift.
Vince
I would like to go if I could get more details.
Edited by: Vince Endter at: 1/30/03 7:07:09 pm
re: releases
etc
Right on Vince about the releases. 3 point to get comfortable with as it is much easier at first, and on lower performing gliders is necessary for pitch pressure control then once you settle in, the two point is typically easier. The point about taking two hands if the line goes slack is one heckuva good point. Its honestly the one thing that scares me, but I like the convience. Anyway the Bob Lane releases are made by Bob Lane at Quest. Just ask for them and he'll know what you're talking about.
My hope/vision would be that the mornings are devoted to newbies. From all newbies I would expect/demand that we are set up and ready to fly at sunrise. Not rolling out of bed, not drinking coffee, not thinking about setting up but ready to learn and fly. Does that suck? Hell yes. To make this worth doing for everyone, everyone has to sacrifice. That means, we're up we're ready to go and we have 4-5 hours for every new person to fly in silk and get shaken off a time or two. Then the guys who have graduated and those who are already signed off can have the afternoon to play while the newbies who need more practice are ground crew and watch and learn from everyone. Then we go at it again in the evening. Believe me I'm not a morning person but I love to fly and I'm willing to do it to make it happen and that takes silk and silk comes at sunrise. I could be totally off base given fog
If I don't hear tomorrow about Boston I'm just going to tell the boss regardless I need to be here for that weekend. Can't plan my life around indesisive managers
Can you tell I'm really itching to fly?
-Dallas
Right on Vince about the releases. 3 point to get comfortable with as it is much easier at first, and on lower performing gliders is necessary for pitch pressure control then once you settle in, the two point is typically easier. The point about taking two hands if the line goes slack is one heckuva good point. Its honestly the one thing that scares me, but I like the convience. Anyway the Bob Lane releases are made by Bob Lane at Quest. Just ask for them and he'll know what you're talking about.
My hope/vision would be that the mornings are devoted to newbies. From all newbies I would expect/demand that we are set up and ready to fly at sunrise. Not rolling out of bed, not drinking coffee, not thinking about setting up but ready to learn and fly. Does that suck? Hell yes. To make this worth doing for everyone, everyone has to sacrifice. That means, we're up we're ready to go and we have 4-5 hours for every new person to fly in silk and get shaken off a time or two. Then the guys who have graduated and those who are already signed off can have the afternoon to play while the newbies who need more practice are ground crew and watch and learn from everyone. Then we go at it again in the evening. Believe me I'm not a morning person but I love to fly and I'm willing to do it to make it happen and that takes silk and silk comes at sunrise. I could be totally off base given fog
If I don't hear tomorrow about Boston I'm just going to tell the boss regardless I need to be here for that weekend. Can't plan my life around indesisive managers
Can you tell I'm really itching to fly?
-Dallas
Feb 15/16 is now
official.
We are limiting this to 10 pilots per day. First come first served. The web page will be up today, and there I will try to answer all of the questions.
I need a phone number for Dallas.
ben
650-769-3274 (wk)
650-321-0436 (home)
ben.rogers@escalate.com
We are limiting this to 10 pilots per day. First come first served. The web page will be up today, and there I will try to answer all of the questions.
I need a phone number for Dallas.
ben
650-769-3274 (wk)
650-321-0436 (home)
ben.rogers@escalate.com
lesson number 1
:-)
www.questairforce.com/aero.html -- people should read over this, its pretty simple but gives you darn near most of what you need to know. I'll post more instruction type things as the weekend goes on and please feel free to start a new topic and fire away with questions.
-Dallas
www.questairforce.com/aero.html -- people should read over this, its pretty simple but gives you darn near most of what you need to know. I'll post more instruction type things as the weekend goes on and please feel free to start a new topic and fire away with questions.
-Dallas
Re: lesson
number 1 :-)
I you are going to give tow ratings, then the Hungary Joe schedule works good. Students in the morning, open tows in the afternoon. Any time there are no students in line an open pilot can get a tow.
Vince
I you are going to give tow ratings, then the Hungary Joe schedule works good. Students in the morning, open tows in the afternoon. Any time there are no students in line an open pilot can get a tow.
Vince
Get your details
here
The Panoche flyer is now online at www.pifko.com/fly/panoche.html .
There are still a few outstanding details which Ben is herding, but the page is mostly complete. It turns out that all those east winds have made every HG pilot in the west coast majorly air horny, and more people than we thought want to attend. Please make sure to let Ben know which of the three days you can fly, and whether you have your AT rating already.
By the way, while Ernie's maps are stunningly cool, the air strip we are likely going to use is actually in the Little Panoche Valley, beside Mercey Hot Springs. Check out the linked page for photos and details.
Daniel
The Panoche flyer is now online at www.pifko.com/fly/panoche.html .
There are still a few outstanding details which Ben is herding, but the page is mostly complete. It turns out that all those east winds have made every HG pilot in the west coast majorly air horny, and more people than we thought want to attend. Please make sure to let Ben know which of the three days you can fly, and whether you have your AT rating already.
By the way, while Ernie's maps are stunningly cool, the air strip we are likely going to use is actually in the Little Panoche Valley, beside Mercey Hot Springs. Check out the linked page for photos and details.
Daniel
Re: Get your
details here
I am all signed up. See ya there.
Albert
I am all signed up. See ya there.
Albert
more photos of
the airstrip
It appears that we'll be towing out of Mercey Hot Springs. That's further north than the Panoche Valley images I posted earlier.
Here's two views of Mercey Hot Springs airstrip:
First, an Earthviewer image (detail not fine enough to show buildings):
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev6.jpg
and zoomed out a bit more to show the Panoche Vly airstrip too:
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev7.jpg
(camera facing north in both shots)
And now a recent photo taken by a sailplane pilot, I think:
www.soarhollister.com/xc/DSCF0049.JPG
(camera facing west)
Compare that with this satellite image taken in 1998 and you'll see that the airstrip has been upgraded recently:
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panochets1.jpg Edited by: Ernie Camacho at: 2/1/03 12:48:02 pm
It appears that we'll be towing out of Mercey Hot Springs. That's further north than the Panoche Valley images I posted earlier.
Here's two views of Mercey Hot Springs airstrip:
First, an Earthviewer image (detail not fine enough to show buildings):
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev6.jpg
and zoomed out a bit more to show the Panoche Vly airstrip too:
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panocheev7.jpg
(camera facing north in both shots)
And now a recent photo taken by a sailplane pilot, I think:
www.soarhollister.com/xc/DSCF0049.JPG
(camera facing west)
Compare that with this satellite image taken in 1998 and you'll see that the airstrip has been upgraded recently:
www.sonomawings.com/logo/panochets1.jpg Edited by: Ernie Camacho at: 2/1/03 12:48:02 pm
Re: more photos
of the airstrip
Hey Ernie,
Thanks for all the great views. Good work. It looks like a fun place to fly. Who all is planning to attend? Is this going to be a big showing of Sonoma Wings pilots? Could be a fun time.
Albert
Hey Ernie,
Thanks for all the great views. Good work. It looks like a fun place to fly. Who all is planning to attend? Is this going to be a big showing of Sonoma Wings pilots? Could be a fun time.
Albert
Camping
Are there any other camping options near by except for Mercey Hot Springs?
Are there any other camping options near by except for Mercey Hot Springs?
Re:
Camping
I think I know what you're thinking, Greg. This may prove to be an expensive road trip. But, since the airstrip is right on Mercey Hot Spring's property, I expect that we should be good guests and contribute to their bottom line.
Then, there's the choice between $15 for day use, and $20 for overnight camping. I'm assuming here that we'd be required to pay one of the two fees if we were using their airstrip. If so, an extra $5 wouldn't be bad for camping right next to the runway, and a hot tub.
I checked all along the road coming in from interstate 5, using satellite photos, and I didn't see anything that looked like a campground. I was thinking that there would be something at Little Panoche Reservoir, but it looks pretty bare.
I think I know what you're thinking, Greg. This may prove to be an expensive road trip. But, since the airstrip is right on Mercey Hot Spring's property, I expect that we should be good guests and contribute to their bottom line.
Then, there's the choice between $15 for day use, and $20 for overnight camping. I'm assuming here that we'd be required to pay one of the two fees if we were using their airstrip. If so, an extra $5 wouldn't be bad for camping right next to the runway, and a hot tub.
I checked all along the road coming in from interstate 5, using satellite photos, and I didn't see anything that looked like a campground. I was thinking that there would be something at Little Panoche Reservoir, but it looks pretty bare.
Re:
Camping
I reserved a spot at the hot springs. The Panicles national monument is about 45 minutes away. They used to be cheap, but now I think most state and national parks are charging about $20 a night.
Vince
I reserved a spot at the hot springs. The Panicles national monument is about 45 minutes away. They used to be cheap, but now I think most state and national parks are charging about $20 a night.
Vince
towing
details
see my new thread for registration.
There is no fee to use the airstrip. Don't worry about Mercey, they want us. Paying their camping fee gets you want you want anyway: tables, fire pit, etc.
10 pilots per day, harsh or not. Paul said he can two 4 pilots an hour. It's going to be hard to get two tows during the thermic (hopefully) part of the day anyway.
see my new thread for registration.
There is no fee to use the airstrip. Don't worry about Mercey, they want us. Paying their camping fee gets you want you want anyway: tables, fire pit, etc.
10 pilots per day, harsh or not. Paul said he can two 4 pilots an hour. It's going to be hard to get two tows during the thermic (hopefully) part of the day anyway.